Immigration -- A Pox on Both Your Houses

It is almost impossible to have a discussion on immigration with either Republicans or Democrats because the conversation quickly devolves into a pointless blame game, eg "how can you defend x when other defenders of x have done so many things wrong" where x = something like "the virtues of immigration" or "consistent enforcement of current immigration laws."   Well, I can give you the definitive answer to this blame game -- it is both their faults.

Before getting into it, a bit of history. 

In my lifetime, IMO the country has never allowed enough legal immigration.  The reasons are complicated but I used to say simplistically that Republicans wanted immigrants to work but not vote (appreciating their economic contribution but fearful of their political impact) while Democrats wanted immigrants to vote but not work (assuming the immigrants would support Democrats but bowing to pressure from unions fearful of employment and wage competition from immigrants).  Bernie Sanders, who is as Left as they come, was opposed immigration for years for exactly these wage competition concerns.

The problem was that the legal immigration level was really too low to support our economic growth, and thus there were always opportunities and relative prosperity for immigrants even when they did not enter legally.   From time to time Congress would be forced to act, generally giving amnesties every so often to immigrants already here and fairly well integrated into the economy.  Immigrants from certain countries were restricted (sometimes for bad reasons, but sometimes for good reasons (eg immigrants from low-trust societies that had dominant clan or tribal relationships -- think Sicily in the early 1900s).  And a good number of immigrants were rejected or deported, often for criminal ties and it is useful to note that until 10 years ago there was pretty solid bipartisan support for doing so.

Beyond the ideological and policy changes over the last 10 years I will describe below, a couple of other changes have been happening that make the immigration problem worse.  First, Presidents have largely given up on the hard work of taking policy choices to Congress and now manage issues like immigration through Presidential decree.  In this environment no engagement with the other side is necessary, which is entirely against the original design of our country.  People get frustrated that Congress does not move fast enough on contentious issues, but in fact that was never the intention.  If the country is divided 51-49 on some issue and the Congress is divided 51-49 and the President was elected 51-49, it should not be possible to stampede an extreme solution to the issue through executive action, but that is the growing approach we have seen over 20 years (at least).

The second changing factor is one of polarization.  The country has any number of times been severely polarized around certain issues, but seldom has it been polarized around ALL issues.  This is largely a result, in my observation, of the knee-jerk partisan behavior we see today.  For example, I wrote the other day that I don't think there is any way to reasonably explain the Left's embrace of Islam, which in its current manifestation tends to be hostile to many of the Left's other values such as secularity, empowerment of women, and sexual tolerance, except as a tit for tat opposition to Conservative post-9/11 criticisms of Islam.  So when one side says that we need less immigration, the other side says we want to take immigration to infinity, and the other side then says we want it negative.

A pox on Republicans, and in particular Trump.

If I had to teach American history thematically, rather than chronologically, one of the top five themes that made the US the nation it is today has to be immigration.  It is impossible to understate the net positive impact of immigration in our history, both in aggregate as well as the many great individuals.  And for our growth and greatness to continue, we need more immigration.  Every economist I have seen present over the last several years (including to such crazy left-wing groups like the board of the California Chamber of Commerce) has said that the economic growth rates we have experienced in the past and wish to see in the future are impossible without substantial increased immigration (I know there is some argument that reduced immigration will lead to re-entry of US citizens into the workforce, which will certainly happen in some small way but not enough to sustain growth and besides, the exit of citizens from the workforce likely has more to do with entitlements than immigration).  Remember that fertility levels in the US have fallen well below replacement levels, which means our native population will begin to shrink with the passing of us baby boomers.

And this is not even to consider the desire we should have to continue to import the best and most talented people into our country.  For decades, other countries have lamented their "brain drain" to the United States as being such an obvious advantage to the US.  Their best and brightest would take a job in the US and never come back.  Their brightest kids would go to US colleges and come to love the country so much they wanted to stay.  It is hard to come up with any parallel case in modern history -- we have lots of examples of talented people running away from certain countries, but I can think of only one where so many talented people ran towards a country.  And insanely, Trump wants to end that because some small percentage are vocal and irritating.   His plan to fight China is to keep their students out of the country.  My plan to fight China would be to take 100,000 of their top kids into our universities every year and offer automatic green cards to the top half of these on graduation.  Skim a million of their best youth off over a generation.

Perhaps driven by years of his private zero-sum deal-making (e.g either the lenders retain more out of bankruptcy or Trump does), Trump brings a really harmful zero-sum thinking to both trade policy and immigration law.  He sees each new immigrant as taking a job from a US citizen, just as he sees each import as reducing US output by the same amount.  This is incredibly narrow thinking that is not born out in theory or in 200 years of practice.  New people and sources of supply allow the US to shift people and capital to more productive pursuits, while accessing the whole world of talent via immigration and trade spurs new ideas and technologies.  This zero-sum thinking is ironic to see in a Republican, because traditionally most Progressive-Left-Marxist economics are founded on zero-sum thinking.  Specifically, trade protectionism and immigration restrictions as a means to protect US jobs has always been the Left's policy position, yet another reason I find Trump to be more Left than Right in much of his economic policy.

Whatever the background, Trump and his MAGA followers cheered the news in 2025 that the US had achieved negative net immigration, a policy I consider entirely equivalent to net-zero climate policy and just as destructive to economic growth.  Traditional Conservatives may try to argue that, well, he is only fixing the worst features of Biden-era immigration policy. But in fact he goes much further than this, blaming immigration of all sorts as a net harm and infecting his followers with an unhealthy mythology about the evils of immigration.  Worse, the over-wrought language about immigration, even calling it an invasion, is being used to justify extreme enforcement tactics up to and including the use of the military for regular policing, something that has always been an anathema in this country.  The tactics have become provocative and dangerous --perhaps even purposefully so -- and Trump really hit a new low by cutting a deal to send the deportees he liked the least to the horrible prisons of El Salvador, which I once called Trump's Constitution-free zone.  Precedents last forever, and frankly I don't care how bad a criminal immigrant is, nothing justifies escalating enforcement to such terrible levels.

A pox on Democrats, and particularly Progressives.

Had the Left set out in 2020 to do everything they could to turn the central third of the political spectrum against immigration, they could not have done a better job.  They actively encouraged people to pour through the deserts of Mexico creating a series of humanitarian crises while at the same time overwhelming the country's ability to humanely receive and integrate them.  They tossed out historic vetting of immigrants with problematic backgrounds.  In the midst of a housing crisis in many cities, they took over whole hotels and housing projects and filled them with these recently arrived immigrants, handing them taxpayer money to live on (necessary because while blue cities tolerated or encouraged their presence, they did not allow them to work).  If you wanted to try to piss off the middle band of Americans who are not hard-core Left or Right, one couldn't do much better than the picture of unvetted immigrants who are effectively exempted from current immigration law living in government funded housing (that many Americans were struggling to afford) and receiving generous government assistance.

And then there is the issue of criminality.  Contrary to mythology on the Right, neither immigrants in general nor illegal immigrants in particular have historically (at least prior to 2020 and maybe still) had higher crime rates than native born Americans.  In fact, much of the data I have seen tends to show them committing fewer crimes.  This does not, by the way, come as a surprise to me from living in Arizona.  These folks were coming here to work and seek prosperity, and nothing would get them tossed out of the American dream faster than encountering the law.  Years ago, I once only slightly tongue in cheek observed that the best way to spot an illegal immigrant in Phoenix was to find the only car actually driving the speed limit.

There was a pretty bipartisan left-right consensus that -- even if we all disagree on the correct level of immigration -- immigrants without permanent residency that commit crimes get sent back via a fairly speedy process.   This is the deal with Joe Sixpack, who is skeptical of immigration but largely accepts it as long as the criminals are stopped at the gates or sent home.  But this consensus got interrupted by the sanctuary city movement.

I will admit that at first, the sanctuary city idea sounded OK to me.  For years I used to rail at our former Sheriff Joe Arpaio (lol just search this site for his name) who used to do crazy stuff like descend on a local business, zip-tie everyone with brown skin, and release them only when some panicked family member brought proof of their legal residency.  Having seen my city actively harassing peaceful, productive people who were in violation of immigration laws (only), I thought at first that sanctuary city meant that the city would allow their illegal immigrants to live in peace.

But it turns out this was not exactly what sanctuary city means in practice.  Phoenix was something of an outlier on this and most cities never had their police actively searching out immigration violations among peaceful, law-abiding residents.  The only time city police really got involved with immigration was when they arrested someone for a crime (eg robbery or assault) and it turned out the person was not a legal immigrant.  Thus the main actual impact of sanctuary city status is that the city does not turn over criminals for deportation, breaking the old deal with Joe Sixpack.  And it has had the additional effect that every high profile, make-the-national-news story about the Left fighting a deportation in the streets or in the courts usually involves a criminal for whom few in the middle are going to have sympathy.  My hard-working and friendly yard guy was deported 9 months ago without a peep of support, but the Left is seen on the news rallying for Venezuelan gang leaders.  The optics are terrible.

Some suggestions (none of which is likely to happen)

  • In the short term, back off in Minneapolis.  It is dangerous there and both sides are to blame for being purposely provocative, though I must admit that Waltz and the rest of the Minnesota government has done what I thought was impossible -- they are being even more outrageous than Trump, purposefully painting targets on law enforcement officers and encouraging their citizens to get into dangerous confrontations.  The Feds are going to have to make the first move to de-escalate -- F*ck saving face, and its only like 1% of the country anyway.  Even Patton had to back off and try again later a few times.
  • In the short term, I would love to see the Feds and sanctuary cities negotiating local agreements to avoid the Minnesota chaos.  The Feds could agree that if the city cooperates on immigrants who have committed crimes on an agreed list, they will not take enforcement actions against others in the city.  In other words, the Feds agree that if the city will hand over their violent and repeat offenders, the Feds will leave the day laborers at the Home Depot alone.  Then if the city still objects, the Feds can publicly proclaim that they only wanted to deport criminals and the city wanted to keep them.  The PR battle they are losing now could go the other way.
  • Longer-term, Congress has to act.  Yes, given that the Senate will remain close to 50-50 for years to come, some sort of compromise will have to happen but this is what is supposed to happen on issues where the citizenry is equally divided.   My guess is that in such a compromise Republicans will have to accept some sort of amnesty and higher immigration limits while Democrats would have to accept greater enforcement activity, more vetting, limits on certain government assistance to immigrants and perhaps more voter ID requirements.  I know this is possible because similar deals have happened in the past.  I am not optimistic as the moderates in the Senate like Krysten Sinema and Jeff Flake have all been driven out and such a compromise can only come with Presidential leadership and its not going to happen here.  More than wanting their stuff, partisans will demand the other guys don't get their stuff.  I would see the Right screaming against anything with amnesty regardless of what they get in return and the Left screaming about voter ID.

Update:  about an hour after I hit publish, the Trump Administration began signaling that looks very close to the first two suggestions above.  We shall see, though this Administration tends to stick to a policy position about as long as a 5-year-old who has mainlined 3 Hershey Bars stays on task.

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Thoughtful comments, thanks. I agree with most of what you say, but especially this:
"If the country is divided 51-49 on some issue and the Congress is divided 51-49 and the President was elected 51-49, it should not be possible to stampede an extreme solution to the issue through executive action, but that is the growing approach we have seen over 20 years (at least)."

Starts out as one of your most insightful comments, but devolves by legitimizing authoritarian police state levels of extreme violence towards the end.

I particularly appreciated the example of Sicilians and the 51-49 comment.

I particularly detested the idea that the people encouraging peaceful resistance and documentation of the atrocities are more to blame than the armchair generals sending in armed troops far exceeding law enforcement in numbers, have those troops kill people completely counter to existing law and in defiance of documented procedure and then turn around, prevent investigations, destroy evidence, make false statements in public and blame the victims.

The debate tends to focus on the supply side - people around the world who want a chance in the USA. Rarely is the demand side discussed. There isn’t a big difference between the people with work visas and those who remain here illegally. Either way, the employer has power to under pay and mistreat.

My ideal system would make it trivially easy to move here, get credentials, and work. However, any employer hiring people without credentials would be severely punished. This would reduce the demand a lot because employers wouldn’t have the power to mistreat. Maybe even enough to decrease illegal immigration. At the very least it would encourage people with skills to come here because they could make a good living.

I think almost every country in the Western World is making the same mistake which is that a) we let people in, b) marginalize them and don't let them contribute and c) don't send them away when they commit crimes. "c" is obviously massively incentivised by "b" and the combination of a+b+c leads to bad outcomes for basically everyone. The "good" immigrants don't get a chance to integrate in and the existing population is exposed to crimes and the cost of subsidizing immigrants instead of having them contribute.

My solution would be:
1) almost everyone can come in (with some exceptions for violent criminals)
2) (almost) no subsidies (I'm ok with some humanitarian help just to get people started)
3) you are allowed (and expected) to work from day 1
4) if you don't behave you're out. Out meaning you are put on a plane, not that you get a court order telling you to please leave. Mistakes are acceptable but some sort of 3 strikes and you're out system works
5) high (but not impossible) hurdles to become a citizen
6) the new cultures don't get to impose their views. You come to a place you adapt to the rules. No burkas, no forcing others to serve halal food, no special treatment
7) you are expected to learn the language and if you don't it's your problem
8) in general and not only for immigrants, you only get a vote if you are a net fiscal contributor (and public employees by definition do not get a vote)

FTAOD: I'm an immigrant

We are going to deport you.

On immigrant crime. It might be lower than for citizens, but the left has been the "if we can only save one life" party. Well, how do they deal with the illegal immigrants who commit murder, or other serious crimes? By their logic - if that immigrant wasn't here - it never would have happened.

Think about their position on pollution - there is almost no acceptable level since an increase will lead to more deaths statistically.

me here, I agree that there needs to be better transparency and honesty after an ICE shooting. However, there are a few problems with your detest. Firstly is that there is a lot of non-peaceful actions taken by those opposing ICE. This both being formally and informally encouraged.

Secondly, let's take a moment and step back and look at your phrase of "peaceful resistance". ICE officers are armed law enforcement agents. Let's say a car is pulled over and the driver arrested. Even if the driver is completely innocent, is the passenger permitted to scream at the police officers, spit at them, smash their car, and try to block the arrest? Pretty much everyone would immediately think that this is incredibly stupid, counterproductive, and you'll get arrested if you are lucky and shot if you are not lucky. Now let's say the passenger isn't totally unhinged and instead is just trying to agitate the police officers, maybe block them, throw out a few insults. The passenger probably won't get shot, but it's still incredibly dumb and would likely result in another arrest.

We have definitely jumped the shark in that "resisting" law enforcement is being pushed as a Constitutionally protected action.

I would also add that none of the "peaceful resistors" have any idea the details of the action law enforcement they are "peacefully resisting". Are they arresting someone who committed atrocities against children? The closest evidence I've seen of people being deported for "no reason" beyond their presence are illegal aliens who were with someone against whom ICE was executing a valid arrest.

People can have different opinions, but I don't believe arresting someone who a court has issued a deportation order against is an atrocity. Maybe we shouldn't do that, but it isn't an atrocity and shouldn't be compared to systematic and brutal murder of millions of people based on their ethnicity, religion, etc.

Thanks for the generally thoughtful and reasonable analysis.

I will note that polarization is one of the biggest problems. Without addressing any specific policy, Side A will be in favor of a rational and reasonable policy position and Side B will irrationally oppose the policy for no other reason that Side A is in favor of the policy. Both sides do it.

@Jim Bob

No complaints about deporting people who have a court ordered removal.

Unfortunately, that's not what is happening.

We have people who don't have removal orders disappearing, cars and children left abandoned, we have legal residents and citizens who get the treatment or get injured or killed in the process, we have people whisked out of state and released far away and insufficiently secure from where they were detained, sexual abuse and statistically unlikely numbers of deaths in custody. And that's just what's documented.

How do we know? Plenty of court orders going into detail about what's going on and injunctions banning such practices. What happens in response? The court orders are ignored and laws continue to be broken.

Hence, the comparison with normal law enforcement operations is arguably misguided.

In addition, motivation is at best sketchy. Note how these unprecedented surge operations aren't taking place where the most immigrants can be found in the US, but instead in blue states with a public profile that the current administration has a beef with. Note how the conditions for stopping those operations are unrelated to immigration: "you must give us all your voter data".

Going back to peaceful protest and behavior, none of the protesters behaviors that got killed were unlawful, in face, they were specifically protected conduct. Meanwhile, the people killing them behaved in clear violation of departmental policies and laws. The interesting thing is that there clearly was some awareness of that, given the immediate aftermath, with destruction of evidence and preventing law enforcement from documenting the scene, and no follow up as typically required. Instead, we got obvious lies from the leadership, which raises a whole lot of other questions.

As I understand it real wages have not gone up in this country in over 50 years and that is largely due to the continued influx of low skilled migrants who flood in and overwhelm the welfare society that was put in place to protect our least citizens. Phrase it how you like. The wages are stagnant because too many people are available. With that you have the flip side of people claiming that Americans won't do the work that migrants do and obviously, its because the migrants will work for nearly nothing and depend on the welfare net at maximum stretch. The H1B are a disaster that offers us nothing and leads to the replacement of Americans by Indians and others graced with a visa that lets them enter and work at a salary far lower than the Americans they replace.
There has never been any shortage of workers, there are only employers that will not pay the workers enough money to make it worth their while (that damned welfare thing again) and so they complain that they need more.
I listened to Victor Davis Hanson the other day talking about how one man with a machine replaced a horde of pickers in his pecan groves. The man and machine came, shook the trees, swept up the nuts and was done in 2 days.
What we are saying is that this country gets worse than nothing from importing hundreds of thousands of Haitians right out of Port au Prince or hundreds of thousands of Somalis out of Mogadishu.
The simple facts are that the numbers of Americans who say STOP is far larger than the handful that insist on letting in more and more. This is a Republic and yet NOBODY listens to the majority of the voters and simply continues to flood the place with more and more impoverished and unskilled migrants.

All that said, I have no problem at all imposing the same exact sort of immigration system we had here in the 50s or that Norway has today for non-asylum immigrants and guest workers. You cannot lift a pencil in Norway without an employer ID and they enforce their laws.

I think we're just tired of the endless fraud, lies and violence and we don't see any reason at all for any of it.

There seems some real dispute over what exactly is meant by a sanctuary city. In an interview with the Mayor of Los Angeles, she was asked about being a sanctuary city and what happens when a violent criminal is arrested. She pointed out that criminal trials and even plea-bargains are public record, so according to her it isn't actually possible for a city to keep the immigration status of someone they are prosecuting a secret. All ICE needs to do is check court fillings and pick people up on their release date from jail, doesn't matter if it is a sanctuary city or not.
But, she also said they usually don't. Back when the city officially turned people in, the city had to spend its resources checking records to determine status, then they'd be told to hold them and wait for border enforcement to get around to picking them up. They'd serve their 10 days in jail for DWI or similar minor offense, then languish in jail for six months waiting for border enforcement to get around to showing up. Back when crime rates were higher, having a bunch of petty offenders stuck in county lockup was a real problem. Today, being a sanctuary city, they won't hold people for immigration enforcement anymore. But, again, nothing is stopping ICE from processing court fillings then picking criminals up as they're released. But, she said they still don't. She suggested processing court documents to find illegals is a lot of office work and the Feds don't want to hire the staff needed to do that work. They want local governments to hire enough staff to do that work for them, cutting into local government budgets and not theirs.
If she is right, the solution seems clear to me. ICE needs to be spending their now massive budget on paper pushers to actually collect and process arrest records to find illegals and then have local agents that can get to the prison on time to pick people up upon release.

In the modern world you can have either large scale immigration or a major social welfare system. You cannot have both.

As far as the "Pox", lets be clear, the Trump Administration is enforcing the laws of the United States and the left wingers are trying to nullify the law.

The real need is comprehensive immigration reform that would create valid work permits efficiently. The work permit would not be a path to citizenship but would allow the worker to go back and forth between countries at valid check points. That would mitigate the need for them to bring their families into the United States and also allow the US to manage any border crossings at a higher level of force (no poor families are crossing). A worker can go to Arkansas and process crops. Go back home. Then come back to harvest almonds in California.

The other aspect of this plan should be a zero tolerance attitude to immigrants involved in crime. We do not need such people and there are dozens of people willing to replace them for the opportunity. Break the law, instant deportation for any immigrant, even those with green cards.