Update on Climate Temperature Sensitivity (Good News, the Numbers are Falling)
I have not had the time to write much about climate of late, but after several years of arguing over emails (an activity with which I quickly grew bored), the field is heating up again, as it were.
As I have said many times, the key missing science in the whole climate debate centers around climate sensitivity, or the expected temperature increase from a doubling of CO2 concentrations in the atmosphere (as reference, CO2 in the industrial age has increased from about 270 ppm to close to 400 ppm, or about half a doubling).
In my many speeches and this video (soon to be updated, if I can just find the time to finish it), I have argued that climate computer models have exaggerated climate sensitivity. This Wikipedia page is a pretty good rehash of the alarmist position on climate sensitivity. According to this standard alarmist position, here is the distribution of studies which represent the potential values for sensitivity - note that virtually none are below 2°C.
The problem is that these are all made with computer models. They are not based on observational data. Yes, all these models nominally backcast history reasonably correctly (look at that chart above and think about that statement for a minute, see if you can spot the problem). But many an investor has been bankrupted by models that correctly backcast history. The guys putting together tranches of mortgages for securities all had models. What has been missing is any validation of these numbers with actual, you know, observations of nature.
Way back 6 or 7 years ago I began taking these numbers and projecting them backwards. In other words, if climate sensitivity is really, say, at 4°C, then what should that imply about historical temperature increases since the pre-industrial age? Let's do a back of the envelope with the 4°C example. We are at just about half of a doubling of CO2 concentrations, but since sensitivity is a logarithmic curve, this implies we should have seen about 57% of the temperature increase that we would expect from a full doubling of CO2. Applied to the 4°C sensitivity figure, this means that if sensitivity really is 4°C, we should have seen a 2.3°C global temperature increase over the last 150 years or so. Which we certainly have not -- instead we have seen 0.8°C from all causes, only one of which is CO2.
So these high sensitivity models are over-predicting history. Even a 2°C sensitivity over-predicts the amount of warming we have seen historically. So how do they make the numbers fit? The models are tuned and tweaked with a number of assumptions. Time delays are one -- the oceans act as a huge flywheel on world temperatures and tend to add large lags to getting to the ultimate sensitivity figure. But even this was not enough for high sensitivity models to back-cast accurately. To make their models accurately predict history, their authors have had to ignore every other source of warming (which is why they have been so vociferous in downplaying the sun and ocean cycles, at least until they needed these to explain the lack of warming over the last decade). Further, they have added man-made cooling factors, particularly from sulfate aerosols, that offset some of the man-made warming with man-made cooling.
Which brings us back to the problem I hinted at with the chart above and its distribution of sensitivities. Did you spot the problem? All these models claim to accurately back-cast history, but how can a model with a 2°C sensitivity and an 11°C sensitivity both accurately model the last 100 years? One way they do it is by using a plug variable, and many models use aerosol cooling as the plug. Why? Well, unlike natural cooling factors, it is anthropogenic, so they can still claim catastrophe once we clean up the aerosols. Also, for years the values of aerosol cooling were really uncertain, so ironically the lack of good science on them allowed scientists to assume a wide range of values. Below is from a selection of climate models, and shows that the higher the climate sensitivity in the model, the higher the negative forcing (cooling) effect assumed from aerosols. This has to be, or the models would not back-cast.
The reasons that these models had such high sensitivities is that they assumed the climate was dominated by net positive feedback, meaning there were processes in the climate system that would take small amounts of initial warming from CO2 and multiply them many times. The generally accepted value for sensitivity without these feedbacks is 1.2°C or 1.3°C (via work by Michael Mann over a decade ago). So all the rest of the warming, in fact the entire catastrophe that is predicted, comes not from CO2 but from this positive feedback that multiplies this modest 1.2°C many times.
I have argued, as have many other skeptics, that this assumption of net positive feedback is not based on good science, and in fact most long-term stable natural systems are dominated by negative feedback (note that you can certainly identify individual processes, like ice albedo, that are certainly a positive feedback, but we are talking about the net effect of all such processes combined). Based on a skepticism about strong positive feedback, and the magnitude of past warming in relation to CO2 increases, I have always argued that the climate sensitivity is perhaps 1.2°C and maybe less, but that we should not expect more than a degree of warming from CO2 in the next century, hardly catastrophic.
One of the interesting things you might notice from the Wikipedia page is that they do not reference any sensitivity study more recent than 2007 (except for a literature review in 2008). One reason might be that over the last 5 years there have been a series of studies that have begun to lower the expected value of the sensitivity number. What many of these studies have in common is that they are based on actual observational data over the last 100 years, rather than computer models (by the way, for those of you who like to fool with Wikipedia, don't bother on climate pages -- the editors of these pages will reverse any change attempting to bring balance to their articles in a matter of minutes). These studies include a wide range of natural effects, such as ocean cycles, left out of the earlier models. And, as real numbers have been put on aerosol concentrations and their effects, much lower values have been assigned to aerosol cooling, thus reducing the amount of warming that could be coming from CO2.
Recent studies based on observational approaches are coming up with much lower numbers. ECS, or equilibrium climate sensitivity numbers (what we would expect in temperature increases if we waited hundreds or thousands of years for all time delays to be overcome) has been coming in between 1.6°C and 2.0°C. Values for TCS, or transient climate sensitivity, or what we might expect to see in our lifetimes, has been coming in around 1.3°C per doubling of CO2 concentrations.
Matt Ridley has the layman's explanation
Yesterday saw the publication of a paper in a prestigious journal,Nature Geoscience, from a high-profile international team led by Oxford scientists. The contributors include 14 lead authors of the forthcoming Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change scientific report; two are lead authors of the crucial chapter 10: professors Myles Allen and Gabriele Hegerl.
So this study is about as authoritative as you can get. It uses the most robust method, of analysing the Earthâs heat budget over the past hundred years or so, to estimate a âtransient climate responseâ â the amount of warming that, with rising emissions, the world is likely to experience by the time carbon dioxide levels have doubled since pre-industrial times.
The most likely estimate is 1.3C. Even if we reach doubled carbon dioxide in just 50 years, we can expect the world to be about two-thirds of a degree warmer than it is now, maybe a bit more if other greenhouse gases increase tooâ¦.
Judith Currey discusses these new findings
Discussion of Otto, one of the recent studies
Nic Lewis discusses several of these results
This is still tough work, likely with a lot of necessary improvement, because it is really hard to dis-aggregate multiple drivers in such a complex system. There may, for example, be causative variables we don't even know about so by definition were not included in the study. However, it is nice to see that folks are out there trying to solve the problem with real observations of Nature, and not via computer auto-eroticism.
Postscript: Alarmists have certainly not quit the field. The current emerging hypothesis to defend high sensitivities is to say that the heat is going directly into the deep oceans. At some level this is sensible -- the vast majority of the heat carrying capacity (80-90%) of the Earth's surface is in the oceans, not in the atmosphere, and so they are the best place to measure warming. Skeptics have said this for years. But in the top 700 meters or so of the ocean, as measured by ARGO floats, ocean heating over the last 10 years (since these more advanced measuring devices were launched) has been only about 15% of what we might predict with high sensitivity models. So when alarmists say today that the heat is going into the oceans, they say the deep oceans -- ie that the heat from global warming is not going into the air or the first 700 meters of ocean but directly into ocean layers beneath that. Again, this is marginally possible by some funky dynamics, but just like the aerosol defense that has fallen apart of late, this defense of high sensitivity forecasts is completely unproven. But the science is settled, of course.
they are testable but they are not going to predict any better than many models - such as hurricane models or ozone hole models or tsunami models.
there is no "one" model ... it's a bunch - like you see with hurricane models or ozone hole models.
models alone do not comprise the entire assessment of something either. Just looking at - for instance, the co2 vs temperature models is not going to tell you anything 100% conclusive about Global warming.
It's the preponderance of the various models, added to current and historical observations - AND other data like ice cores and geological cores, etc... that support an assessment.
and when a majority of scientists look at ALL of this evidence and reach a concurrence - it's not like one guy with no formal training and no experience in the field looking at one set of charts.
that's the problem. we have folks who do not have the background and knowledge to actually be able to perform a credible scientific analysis - drawing conclusions on others who have basically spent their lives working on it - not one or two - but 90% of dozens, hundreds of similarly educated and knowledgeable people.
It's as if a sold majority of scientists is telling us that an asteroid is headed our way and there is a hefty chance it could hit us - and we have some armchair types look at the data and then accuse those scientists of lying and colluding on a global scale.
it's nutty. It reminds me of Planet of the Apes.
Watching Lartard try to "educate" the readers here about something (anything, actually) is comedy gold. Ol' Gross(ly) ig'nant always retreats to his precautionary principle, atrophied, naive ideology. Trying to reason with the half-wit is a waste of time and energy...he'll keep blathering and typing, all the while muttering about the same crap and tossing about his tired cliches and bullshit. The "guy" is a retard reprobate and not worthy of serious consideration.
I see you aren't terribly familiar with the idea of a "rhetorical question." Some models are testable and good - like those which predict the path of hurricanes - and these get validated and improved all the time.
Please show me where the climate models have done the same.
Lots of scientists saying something does not mean that they are correct - please do remember that scientific progress is caused by someone positing a hypothesis which goes against the currently accepted majority opinion *and yet happens to be correct*. The articles cited above are about, in fact, a change in consensus - i.e. that the things which people have been saying for the past 20 years about climate were wrong. That's a big deal. It will take a while before that new information is accepted by everyone who before was arguing for the higher numbers - and it will be interesting to see whether they are intellectually honest about the ramifications of this new information on the political recommendations.
By the way, I *am* an engineer who deals in complex systems, modeling and iterative analysis for a living.
re: " I see you aren't terribly familiar with the idea of a "rhetorical question." Some models are testable and good - like those which predict the path of hurricanes - and these get validated and improved all the time."
can you name a hurricane model is that so accurate that it is the de facto standard in use now?
Please show me where the climate models have done the same.
Hurricane is weather - not climate. Climate is more difficult, even weather models for ballistic missiles are tough.
but that's not the point. The point is who do you trust to interpret the models and the other evidence - and why.
"Lots of scientists saying something does not mean that they are correct - please do remember that scientific progress is caused by someone positing a hypothesis which goes against the currently accepted majority opinion *and yet happens to be correct*."
I totally agree.. but when 90% move towards a consensus on a good part of it - it means something.
" The articles cited above are about, in fact, a change in consensus - i.e. that the things which people have been saying for the past 20 years about climate were wrong."
other articles of which I posted one said it did not change the preponderance of the evidence... that other things still convince a majority that we are on a warming track and we need to look further at the anomalies.
" That's a big deal. It will take a while before that new information is accepted by everyone who before was arguing for the higher numbers - and it will be interesting to see whether they are intellectually honest about the ramifications of this new information on the political recommendations."
it's not a big deal when you focus ONLY on the articles that confirm your own views.
By the way, I *am* an engineer who deals in complex systems, modeling and iterative analysis for a living.
I spent 30+ years with models also guy. it's not ONE model or ONE scientist guy.
It's a bunch of scientists using a bunch of models and other evidence - that have reached a general consensus - by no means a unanimous one on all aspect.
if you are an engineer - you should know what that means.
If a majority of certified engineers tell you that something will work or won't work - do you say they are wrong?
would you, as a person with engineering credentials attempt to tell someone else with other credentials that you don't have - that they are wrong because you have read something?
if someone came to you with no engineering credentials and told you - you were wrong on an engineering issues because they had read something on the internet...what would you tell them?
Lartard, your blind faith in the experts of your progtard Cult of Glowball Worming is refreshing. It's still retarded, but your childish appeal to those "experts'" opinions (because that is what their "peer-reviewed" papers are: opinions) harkens back to when I was a 6-year-old and thought that I knew everything. I grew out of that facile phase and know when I'm being bullshitted by grifters and pseudo-scientists. Sadly, what is endearing in children is fucking retarded in adults. You occupy a slot in that latter category. You are a fucking retard.
Eat a sack of shit, you retard. I see that you have some new tropes to drool all over the internets..."armchair scientists," "right-wing echo chambers," and a couple of other ones. I bet that it took you hundreds of hours rearranging those plastic letters on your granny's refrigerator to come up with those zingers. What a fucking retard.
What makes you think the Atmosphere/Ocean/Surface/Vegetation/Ice/Snow/Carbon sink system jumps to equilibrium with CO2 values and consequent radiation balance on a time frame shorter than 100 years? I think water vapor might respond pretty quickly to temperature, but the other feedbacks seem to me to be quite slow. Including ice retreat, ocean temperature and circulation, deep ocean temp + carbon sink, permafrost melting (conduction is slow), etc.
I'd personally look at the deep time record for pCO2 sensitivity. Glacial interglacial cycles over the last few million years and some of the tertiary hyperthermals. To a first order I'd suspect we have the capability to get back to the temperatures and climate systems that were at equilibrium with the past levels of CO2 similar to the ones we predict for the future. It's pretty simple.
All your arguments about dominant negative feedback are sort of at odds with climate variability over the last 300 million years. It hasn't been tightly constrained at all. The oceans didn't boil dry, but we've gone back and forth between glacial worlds and ice free poles with high latitude forests.
You have a point there. But before we can come to a conclusion we need to show that CO2 is a major driver of climate change in the first place. It it such a weak greenhouse gas and in such small quantities in the atmosphere that, that supposition is improbable.
The paleo record is pretty strong there. It's strength is actually in its residence time. Water vapor residence is measured in days. Aerosols are measured in months. Methane in years. The geological CO2 cycle has a half life measured in 1000s of years. The geologic record indicates a weak consistent driving force actually has a significant effect through feedbacks.
If you want to see another weak driving force look at the insolation effect of the milankovich cycles on the northern hemisphere. It's tiny, but it affects albedo and the carbon cycle and consequent water vapor/albedo/methane/ocean feedbacks. It drives glacial interglacial cycles like clockwork.
it's a bunch of things involved and to focus on one aspect while ignoring the others ... well. it's not science. The scientists could be correct on global warming - but wrong on the reasons.
in the end - the damage might be the same if warming is real - no matter the cause.
This is the typical progression of the AGW argument under duress. The sequence is
1. The science is settled - all scientists agree on AGW
2. Well, OK, there are a few scientists that disagree, but they must work for oil companies
3. OK, there are uncertainties around the models, but they are minor
4. So, maybe the uncertainties are significant, but what if the pro AGW scientists are right? Why take the chance and risk catastrophe
Modeling missiles and Hurricanes is different than modeling climate in one key aspect.
Both missiles and hurricanes have one or two extremely powerful inputs, whose strength can override all other factors. Missiles have thrust and gravity - that's about it. You can be wrong about humidity, the chemical composition of the air, and all sorts of minor variables, because thrust and gravity are going to dwarf any of their effects. Similarly with Hurricanes - you have barometric pressure systems, wind speed and ocean temperature, which dwarf any other variables.
With global climate, you are talking about a system with dozens, if not hundreds of smaller inputs. the only overriding input is the sun, but that doesn't seem to be an input that the AGW crowd wants to spend time on. Instead, they are trying to model the impact of a trace gas, CO2. It is much, much harder to model the impact of a minor variable in a complex system containing hundreds of other minor variables, than it is to model a simpler system being driven by a handful of strong variables.
And, I think you know that, and thus know that your missiles and hurricane analogy is a strawman.
my view is that the science is NEVER settled 100%. Scientists STILL do not agree fully on all the dimensions of the Ozone Holes even though a consensus developed that to do nothing could risk calamity.
It's the same now with GW except politics has gotten toxic.
the thing is, in a majority of scientists believe that there is a strong possibility of a worldwide calamity - why would we disbelieve all of it to the point of refusing to even believe it much less take some initial reasonable actions?
Missile and Hurricane models have a lot of input - that although not as major as some, could still predict a failure, a disaster and even though missile/hurricane models are never 100% dead on accurate and sometimes just flat wrong, we do not attack the science of the modelling - we still use it and still arrive at consensus on what those models might mean.
We evacuate cities and entire regions based on what an admittedly flawed hurricane model tells us. We do not deny the implications of the model and claim that not only the model itself is wrong and the scientists wrong much less that the scientists are colluding in a massive global conspiracy to delude people.
the science behind other kinds of models is always a work-in-progress, never 100% dead-on infallible, never has 100% of the scientific community in consensus, usually has some scientists that violently disagree ............... but we do act when the models are predicting trouble.