Where Did the Last Batch Go?
Obama and the Left want a big new infrastructure spending bill, based on twin theories that it would be a) stimulative and b) a bargain, as needed infrastructure could be built more cheaply with construction industry over-capacity.
Since this is exactly the same theory of the stimulus four years ago, it seems a reasonable question to ask: What happened to the damn money we spent last time? We were sold a 3/4 of a trillion dollar stimulus on it being mostly infrastructure. So where is it? Show us pictures, success stories. Show us how the cost of construction of these projects were so much lower than expected because of construction industry over-capacity. Show us the projects selected, to demonstrate how well thought-out the investment prioritization was. If their arguments today have merit, all these things must be demonstrable from the last infrastructure bill. So where is the evidence?
Of course, absolutely no one who wants to sell stimulus 2 (or 3?) wants to go down the path of investigating how well stimulus 1 was spent. Instead, here is the argument presented:
Much of the Republican opposition to infrastructure spending has been rooted in a conviction that all government spending is a boondoggle, taxing hard-working Americans to give benefits to a favored few, and exceeding any reasonable cost estimate in the process. That's always a risk with new spending on infrastructure: that instead of the Hoover Dam and the interstate highway system, you end up with the Bridge to Nowhere and the Big Dig.
In that sense, this is a great test of whether divided democracy can work, and whether Republicans can come to the table to govern. One can easily imagine a deal: Democrats get their new infrastructure spending, and Republicans insist on a structure that requires private sector lenders to be co-investors in any projects, deploying money based on its potential return rather than where the political winds are tilting.
This is bizarre for a number of reasons. First, he implies the problem is that Republicans are not "coming to the table to govern" In essence then, it is up to those who criticize government incremental infrastructure spending (with a lot of good evidence for believing so) as wasteful to come up with a solution. Huh?
Second, he talks about requiring private lenders to be co-investors in the project. This is a Trojan horse. Absurd projects like California High Speed Rail are sold based on the myth that private investors will step in along side the government. When they don't, because the project is stupid, the government claims to be in too deep already and that it must complete it with all public funds.
Third, to the extent that the government can sweeten the deal sufficiently to make private investors happy, the danger of Cronyism looms large. You get the government pouring money into windmills, for example, that benefits private investors with a sliver of equity and large manufacturers like GE, who practically have a hotline to the folks who run programs like this.
Fourth, almost all of these projects are sure to be local in impact - ie a bridge that helps New Orleans or a street paving project that aids Los Angeles. So why are the Feds doing this at all? If the prices are so cheap out there, and the need for these improvements so pressing, then surely it makes more sense to do them locally. After all, the need for them, the cost they impose, and the condition of the local construction market are all more obvious locally than back in DC. Further, the accountability for money spent at the Federal level is terrible. There are probably countless projects I should be pissed off about having my tax money fund, but since I don't see them every day, I don't scream. The most accountability exists for local money spent on local projects.
no.. can you direct me to the page where it shows what you say:
http://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/files/cbofiles/attachments/43907-BudgetOutlook.pdf
are you looking at page 12? yes.. I see.... do you have a breakdown of what the additional is for ? It can't be stimulus because it continues all the way through the out years... and we both know the GOP would never agree to that and most credible publications have capped the stimulus at about a trillion spread over 3 years.
It doesn't matter how it is defined, what it is for, etc. spending is spending. It jumped from 2.7T to 3.5T because of the stimulus and never came back down. This should bother all of us, particularly since we are borrowing the money and passing the debt on to our children to take care of it.
I agree with you, the Republicans should never have agreed to the CR's at these spending levels, but they did it, over and over. It takes more than just Democrats disapproval to rate congress below 20% or however low they have sunk to lately. Thanks for keeping it civil. Unusual out here!
I'm not convinced that the stimulus goes on. 2009 is when it hopped up and that was not the Obama budget.. that budget was passed in 2008 - signed by Bush.
and each year, CRs have to be signed and there is no way the GOP would agree to continue stimulus.
re: keeping it civil. Charles, I TRY HARD to keep it civil. My general rule is to reply in kind but sometimes in this forum.. it gets confusing who is throwing the "cocksucker" words around and who is not so I return the compliment to you.
re: debt on the kids - I totally agree ....
have you seen this (this was decided BEFORE Obama took office)
National Security Outlays in Fiscal Year 2009
(billions of dollars)Department of Defense636.5Department of Energy (nuclear weapons & environ. cleanup)16.7Department of State (plus intern. assistance)36.3Department of Veterans Affairs95.5Department of Homeland Security51.7Department of the Treasury (for Military Retirement Fund)54.9National Aeronautics & Space Administration (1/2 of total)9.6Net interest attributable to past debt-financed defense outlays126.3these are real numbers...
we currently take in about 1.3T in individual and corporate income taxes...
Now.. I KNOW we have to do something about entitlements but there is no way we can fix this problem just by cutting entitlements.1,027.5
wow.. the formatting mucked up bad.
the total for National Defense is about 1T
our total available revenues are about 1.3T
that's a big problem before you ever get to the rest of the spending.
Here you go Larry:
http://cnsnews.com/news/article/boehner-obama-deals-produce-25t-new-debt-2-years-21817-household
the Republicans are on your side. Have been all along. Help me figure out how to save my kids for from having to pay for all of this? Surely you worry for your kids too? Your guys are a complete disaster and my guys vote for their ideas too. This will not end well for any of us. Help!! Let us all know where you are on this disaster, please.
Charles
I don't typically consider CNS an authoritative unbiased news source and this is an
example why. Neither Boehner nor Obama can produce debt. Only a majority vote of both houses of Congress AND Obama signing it - can produce debt. Obama also does not have line item veto so his choice is to sign or not sign any budget sent to him but since Congress cannot agree on a budget they HAVE BEEN agreeing on Continuing Resolutions - continuing spending a deficit levels.
this whole "kid" thing is a charade to start with We've squandered our kids as cannon fodder in one useless war after another consigning many to a lifetime of living with profound injuries and the rest of us - and our kids - committed to pay entitlements for their injuries - for as long as they live
where am I on this? I support a balanced budget. I think we spend too much on entitlements AND DOD/National Defense. I think our spending on ND is obscene and is truly part and parcel of the debt on the "kids". But I also don't think we have enough revenues to pay for the National Defense we say we need. I keep asking people WHAT PERCENT of our available tax revenues would you commit to National Defense, Give me a number.
Then finally I'd point out that right now - we take in about 1.3T in individual and corporate income taxes and we currently spend about 1T in National Defense. That's about 70% of our available revenues so I ask you is that the right number and if you think it is it also the right percentage? is 1.3T adequate to pay for what we say we need?
these are the facts and the realities that we do not want to seem to confront in this seemingly neverending dialogue about Obama and the "debt" (that he did not create as the spending for National Defense was locked in before he became POTUS.
So what say you Charles? what percent of our available revenues would you commit to National Defense ( remember National Defense is not just DOD - it is all the other things we spend to "defend" the country that includes homeland security, NASA military satellites, DOE nuke weapons and ship reactors, the VA, military and civilian pensions, etc. between DOD and the rest of the money we DO spend on ND, it totals up to about a trillion dollars - and we take in 1.3T. so what say you?