Do Republicans Really Want to Create 12 Million Refugees?
Mickey Kaus wonders why the GOP elite is still "clinging to amnesty" for illegal immigrants. I have the same thought every time I hear someone rail against "amensty": What the f*ck else are we going to do? Put 12 million people in jail for violating immigration laws? Are we really talking about deporting 12 million people? Do you have any idea how ugly this will be? I don't want to commit a Godwin's Law violation, but rousting people -- whole families -- out of their homes at gunpoint and loading them up on trucks and trains to be shipped en mass somewhere else -- does this sound like any other 20th century event to you? If you wanted to find some other precedent for this that was not the German shipping of Jews to Poland, what would even be close?
Looked at another way, the disastrous government and civil war in Syria has created, by UN estimates, 4 million refugees. At a stroke, do Republicans really want to create 12 million refugees? I get it that there is an ugly populist sentiment in a percentage of the Republican base to let Mexicans go hang, but the definition of responsible leadership in a Republic has got to include ignoring, or at least defusing, these sentiments. But the current crop of Republican Presidential candidates seem no more willing to avoid this particular evil than Democratic candidates can seem to rise above ugly sentiments in their base to put the 1% richest people up against a wall.
Learning on some subjects just seems not to happen. Our borders are, well, definitely less than "a line drawn in the sand". Be a deeper more enlightened, and kinder thinker and let the poor and uneducated in without thought of consequence. Be a deeper
more enlightened thinker, and kinder thinker and let the criminal and insane in without thought of consequence. Actually, don't think at all and let the terrorist and those who disrespect personal freedom in without thought of consequence. 12 million people here illegally - oh god, the thought of them not being able to stay. OMG! The truly enlightened answer is to let them stay and to let us bring in another 12 million or 20 million - yes - that way we can be deeper thinkers, more enlightened, and kinder. And lets call them all refugees! I am so kind and considerate it brings tears to my eyes.
The vast majority wants "strict sanctions" against employers of illegal aliens and even the landlords who rent them housing. We have immigration laws which Bush2 and Obama have cut back enforcing. We have a depression in the working class thanks to the illegal aliens taking their jobs. We all know someone who has been pushed into poverty by the illegal alien tsunami. It is way past time to simply start enforcing our laws. Send them all packing.
Remember Elian Gonzalez?
The pendulum swings back. Trump has already said what he'd do. A deportation force and a wall. There's a silver lining in everything- maybe our military industrial complex will prefer wall-sitting jobs here at home rather than getting ridiculously close to Russian troops elsewhere.
This is our failure, in a lot of ways. People only play by libertarian principles if they are enforced in some way. Otherwise, some idiot starts passing legislation about toilets, and things generally go downhill from there.
I wish more people would bring him and Terry Schaivo up, whenever Jeb tries to act tough about anything.
You have given me a sudden urge to say, 'Si, se puede!'
Fans of open borders always wring their hands and say "what are we going to do--storm troopers kicking down doors? Screaming children? Cattle cars are a favorite rhetorical device. There is no human being who has advocated any of these cruel methods. These notions are limited to imaginations of hyper sensitive and sanctimonious souls who can't bear the idea of enforcing laws.
It is quite simple. When an overstayer is identified, and this is often a "dreamer"who has stolen the identity of one of our hapless citizens, he is simply held for a hearing. He can call his friends or family to bring a jet ticket to El Salvador, or wherever. He is then escorted to the plane by an officer. Second offense he can work on a road gang for a year. This is what civilized nations do to U.S. Citizens who overstay their welcomes. Enforcement of the law will have a remarkable effect on the behavior of prospective invaders.
With regard to politicians, the real question is, when they see how soundly Trump defeats both parties- as disgruntled rank and file from everywhere hands him the win, why won't these profoundly degenerate bastards do an about face, and proudly drive a bus full of Mexicans to the border themselves?
The other question is, are you a shill? You seem to have a lot of time on your hands to comment. Insomnia, or is your job comments?
Are you worried about my schedule, August? And do you think anyone really gets paid to talk to you?
You weren't talking to me. You were spending an awful lot of time trying to shape the conversation while reality is passing you, and any potential sponsors by.
I haven't posted in there for days. I can't remember any of the usernames of the people I talked to at the time.
I'm flattered that you think I'm a shill who gets paid to post on Coyote Blog, but in my experience, people who accuse others of that are stupid and paranoid in equal measure.
No, I am asking if you are shill, and I know you would more likely be working through Disqus posting comments on a number of blogs, perhaps even using alerts for particular key words and then dropping in out of the blue to barf text all over the comments section. Where is your blog?
I don't think you have very much experience. If you did have enough experience, and you don't shill, you'd have seen a comment section or two be reshaped to fit the narrative rather than the facts as you know them. If you had enough experience, and you do shill, you'd know how to appear as one of us.
You've asked. I've answered. Now you're just being a crazy person.
No. I have asked. You have merely insulted and tried to change the subject.
Arthur C. Clarke is supposed to have said," Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."
I suspect intelligence is, to some, indistinguishable from crazy.
If you were intelligent, you would have actually responded to the arguments I made. Instead, you have focused on whether I am a "shill." If it wasn't clear from the outset, then let me say definitively now: no, doofus, no one is paying me to be here. I don't have a blog, I am not selling anything. I'm just a person who comments when a subject particularly interests me, as does immigration. As far as "shaping a narrative," if you mean reading someone's posts and then addressing their comments, then yes, you got me! Awful of me to do that, I know.
If you had a blog, you'd look less sketchy. Most of us who've been interested in this stuff for years blog, at least to ourselves.
The deporters can, and most likely will, deport these people. The legal arguements are set to naught, because the left has been ignoring law for too long. It doesn't matter. If all you have left is the narrative, well, it will not protect anyone. The best thing would be to figure out how to mollify those who will probably be doing the deportation. But you are probably too late.
Maybe you didn't catch the whole point of Si, se puede. Maybe you were too young to remember that, but you still shouldn't resort to insults. People can read this, you know.
August, this is the internet. Everyone looks sketchy. You seem sketchy.
If blogging helps you clarify your thoughts, great, but it really serves no purpose for me. I had one years ago and I just ended up neglecting it. For most, a blog is merely an expression of vanity, but very few people have anything interesting, unique or noteworthy to say about anything. So, if you find my refusal to participate in something that anyone can do, proves very little, accomplishes nothing more than serving as a repository for everything that pops into my head, then feel free. You have already decided what you think about me, so any revelation you discover from here will likely be viewed through that lens, anyway.
Do you understand the difference between advocacy and discussion? I don't think posting on Coyote Blog about my immigration views changes anything. I don't think my views reflect the law. I enjoy talking about the subject, and I enjoy going after what I think are weak arguments for stringent border controls. It's an intellectual exercise. I have no expectations beyond that. Not trying to mollify, not trying to stop anything - at least not through this means.
You're right, I shouldn't resort to insults, like calling someone a shill or crazy. https://www.youtube.com/embed/fzxag7U3Snk?rel=0
Wouldn't want to do that. People can, after all, see this.
Listen to the words. It is relevant to the argument. Not an insult.
But I don't mind giving back.
There's no argument in calling me a shill. That's just an ad hominem attack about me that has nothing to do with the discussion about immigration.
"Crazy" has even less to do with the discussion. That was just straight-up insult. I don't mind the insults, really, but if you're going to tell me I should cut it out because people are reading, then apply your own lesson, my dear.
I asked if you were a shill because you act like it. I dropped Crazy in the feed because of the lyrics- the most pertinent one is, 'you really think you're in control.' Deportation grows more likely by the day, and the more the rightful citizens of this country are dissaffected, the more likely it will be by lawless means. I am amazed at how many people younger than me embrace the racist label- apparently the cultural Marxist teachers have inadvertently created a bunch of fascists. It would have been nice anyone had actually listened to me, but then, I am not in control either. But if the lie- the narrative doesn't stop, these guys will end up in charge:
I thought this thread was dead, but like 20 new comments appeared and was wondering if anything new and/or insightful was posted. Sadly, it appears not.Between "Shill", "Crazy", some trumpeteering, and "Bad Mothers", the message you are trying to convey is rather incoherent. Illegal immigration may be a true problem, maybe people are simply scapegoating mexicans for whatever problem du jour has taken their fancy this month; either way it is an ugly sort of populism.
Certainly many of the "establishment" republican candidates have done no favors to anybody by fracturing the base with no hope of winning. Because of this, trumps plurality of crazy may yet wind up winning the day in the primaries. But do not think this message will play well with independents and moderate democrats in the general election. (Or put another way, do you think Trump can pull off 64% of the white vote and 30% of the minority vote by appealing to the electorate on this issue?
Deportation can be done.
Treating your white citizens like red headed stepchildren is dangerous, and if it does not result in Trump, it will probably result in something actually Nazi.
The lower classes like a real man. Trump may not actually be a real man, but he plays one on TV better than the rest. The dude is not even spending money yet. He doesn't have to. Why make commercials when other people are doing it for you?
This is a bunch of nothing, but thanks for sharing your opinion.
No, it is a bunch of me constantly returning you to the point at hand, which you don't want to deal with.
Deportation is possible. It is currently the only solution being proposed. The sane thing would be to propose alternative solutions rather than simply lying. It is neither unthinkable nor not doable. This is not hard, but you've likely been encouraged to completely discount a certain cross section of America as racist. You aren't in a discussion; you are trying to perform word magic.
August, you have spent more time trying to undermine me and my motives than you have seriously engaging in any discussion about immigration, as though this would weaken my arguments. When you say "perform word magic," you're only proving my point. You don't have the intellectual rigor to participate, so you feel the need to make this about me - why I am here, what I have been taught, what I feel personally, but have not actually said. Is this for real?
It's funny that you accuse me of 'shaping the narrative,' but have repeatedly tried to hijack the immigration conversation between us to what you find interesting. I don't find this interesting or thought provoking in any way, nor do I think you're even correct. Mass deportation is possible, but unlikely for all sorts of logistical and political reasons, and it's not the only solution being proposed. So, what are you even talking about?
Notice that when I actually comment on other people's posts, I specifically address what they've written. You have no desire to do that. This is the one thing you want to talk about, and it's boring. Please find someone else who would like to have that back-and-forth with you because it's not me.
Do you understand that moving 12 million people is something that can be done?
Will I get a simply yes?
Will I get more text trying to bury reality?
I think the growing nationalist movement means either it, or something worse will be attempted.
I also think the current situation is inching us towards what I've heard called gaza-fication.
It is politically advantageous to have a contained 'enemy' close at hand. This is the way the Israeli politicians keep their voters from getting too many bright ideas about freedom.
I think Ferguson, despite a number of us arguing against militarized police, sold a lot of middle class whites on the idea. The tech, and sometimes the private companies, are increasingly used during events- I first heard about with regard to the World Cup in Brazil. No doubt these companies market to governments heavily.
Neither of these groups mind the material or political cost of their respective objectives. The only people who might mind the cost to our liberty are on the right. Some like to point out that liberty is something Europeans give a damn about- and that one of the reasons libertarians get no traction is because the left has been importing voters who don't share our values. This is true, but it also belies the fact that the people who started misusing government in the first place were white.
We are, as ever, not in control.
Just do NOT give anything "free" to the immigrants (legal or not legal). Now private citizens and charities can give whatever they want--but nothing from GOVERNMENT. Simple solution--they can make it here on their own, or go back where they came from. YES OR NO?
How about the Soviet shipping of Germans to Germany? Trump is hardly a gas-the-k*kes-race-war-now kinda guy. Come on.