Wherein It Turns Out I Am Not Loyal to the US
Unfortunately don't have the time to comment much on this absurd comment, but I am not sure it is even deserving of comment
Andy Stern, president of one of the nations biggest labor unions, said today that America is failing, and many entrepreneurs arent loyal to the U.S.
I think the country is in a mess, Stern, president of the 2.1 million-member Service Employees International Union, said at the Wall Street Journal CEO Council, a conference in Washington. I think America is failing.
Stern, the most frequent guest to the White House this year, said the U.S. economy has created a system in which the entrepreneurial class is not loyal to America. Its not wrong for the government to distribute wealth to people who need it, and labor unions can help the country do that, Stern said.
Chris K.:
I'm not loyal at all to the US. I see no problem with that. My loyalty ended with the TARP bailouts. And I used to be a flag waving, apple pie eating, America Rah, Rah, Rah type.
My priorities are me and mine from now on.
November 17, 2009, 5:18 pmFred from Canuckistan . . .:
Socialists and Trade Unionists won't be happy until they have, using their advanced "Progressive" powers, redistributed every one else's money to those that they have determined to be needy.
November 17, 2009, 5:19 pmMethinks:
Yeah. I got the same "enemy of the people" speech before when we applied for permission to leave the Soviet Union. Except, that time it was much more dramatic because they also ripped up our birth certificates and my parent's marriage license right after.
Chris is reacting the same way any normal person would to a collectivist system. All anybody in Russia cared about was what they could extract for themselves. The "we" society was more a "me" society than any American libtard could imagine. Caring and sharing is for rich people.
November 17, 2009, 6:03 pmBrad K.:
I, uh, I *think* I am loyal to America. I mean, I want Americans to succeed and do well, I want Americans to be safe, and I still recall, and intend to honor, the oath I swore when I joined the US Navy: To support, protect, and defend the Constitution of the United States of America.
You might find me opposing various acts of Congress and the Obama Administration, because I feel they are harmful to Americans, harmful to America, and / or contrary to the Constitution of the United States. I support our President as President, and his actions that fall within the legitimate scope of his office. Unless I find his actions unlawful, unconstitutional, immoral, or unsafe.
But I think I am loyal to the US. Just not everything the government tries to do.
November 17, 2009, 6:28 pmSean:
Loyalty should extend outward as a pebble makes ripples in a pond. Loyalty first to ones self, family, friends, community and country. Loyalty to the country should be measured by the degree to which the government serves the people not the other way around. One cannot be loyal to a government that views the people as a natural resource to fuel its own machinations.
As for Mr. Stern, shouldn't he rather be president of the Service Employees America Union?
November 17, 2009, 7:15 pmEddie:
Once "needs it" trumps "earns it," that's pretty much all she wrote.
Having been in a labor union for a time, I have to disagree with his bizzare statement of their purpose. As far as I could tell, their reason for being is to completely isolate senior members from real-world threats to employment, enrich union leaders, and completely screw over newer members and non-members who dare to work in the "union shop"... Never saw "need" enter the equation.
November 17, 2009, 8:30 pmspiro:
I am really starting to miss the Bush-era jingoism. Now that the Left has commandeered Patriotism, it looks too much like Statism.
While I still believe in and honor the IDEA of America, I am not loyal to the federal government in any way, and almost reflexively mistrust the government and those employed by it. I also agree that loyalty starts with family and friends and must be earned by strangers.
November 17, 2009, 8:50 pmDan Maloney:
Andy Stern calling anybody unpatriotic (except perhaps himself) is laughable on the face of it.
November 17, 2009, 8:58 pmPerhaps he's looking for a second career after this little doozy:
http://nygoe.wordpress.com/2009/11/16/socialist-in-chief-of-seiu-nabbed-for-illegal-lobbying/
Evil Red Scandi:
The one great thing about the Obama administration is that the closet socialists are all coming out. They're not even pretending any more.
November 17, 2009, 10:12 pmJoseph Hertzlinger:
Weren't the same people complaining about having their patriotism questioned?
November 17, 2009, 10:52 pmTerry Noel:
The most "American" idea, if we really look at the principle of individualism on which our country was founded, is for business to go to the best provider. To insist on buying American or not to outsource when it clearly is the preferred strategy is not only a dumb business decision, it perpetuates the idea that incompetence should be rewarded--as long as one is an American. We will recover as a nation precisely when this mentality is lying on top of the trash heap of bad ideas.
November 18, 2009, 4:36 amKen:
I am an American. This "United States" abomination out of Mordor on the Potomac (and/or Minas Morgul at your local statehouse, amply abetted by both branches of the Incumbency Party) has no claim upon me.
Andy Stern is free to assume that I am his enemy, and the enemy of whatever it is to which he has sold himself, and to try anything he feels himself up to trying.
November 18, 2009, 6:57 amDrTorch:
Once again, straight out of "Atlas Shrugged."
The only virtue is "need." How that's defined is just part of the fun.
November 18, 2009, 7:32 amsethstorm:
Short of his redistributionist part of his speech and insistence that only unions are the solution, Stern is right.
Terry Noel:
The most “American†idea, if we really look at the principle of individualism on which our country was founded, is for business to go to the best provider. To insist on buying American or not to outsource when it clearly is the preferred strategy is not only a dumb business decision, it perpetuates the idea that incompetence should be rewarded–as long as one is an American. We will recover as a nation precisely when this mentality is lying on top of the trash heap of bad ideas.
Hardly. It only shows that you are willing to sell out the US, part and parcel, individuals and groups, and it be unionized or non-unionized. The primary driver of most international moves outside the developed parts of the world US/UK/Pre-Expansion EU were to circumvent undesirable groups of our nation. First it was unions in manufacturing that were undesirable, then the set of such has grown to all US citizens(even the most anti-union Southerner).
Selling out your nation to avoid some segment of the population should have been on the trash heap. The unintended consequence of selling out your country is that you harm its people as well as the government. Unintended consequences don't just happen to the people you hate.
What would happen if you heard the same message (sans union & redistribution advocacy) from a loyal Republican?
At no point should an individual's citizenship be a burden in any part of his life, work or personal, it should be something one should be proud to have. For that, I am proud that I am a US Citizen and it is a shame that there are people who consider it a black mark when finding work.
November 18, 2009, 7:44 amalanstorm:
"From each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs." Seems I've heard that somewhere before.
November 18, 2009, 8:07 amNot Sure:
I've never understood this "selfish entrepreneurs screwing the working man" argument. If government is needed to protect workers from greedy entrepreneurs, why do government workers need unions?
November 18, 2009, 8:10 amalanstorm:
"I’ve never understood this “selfish entrepreneurs screwing the working man†argument. If government is needed to protect workers from greedy entrepreneurs, why do government workers need unions?"
Not Sure, the problem is that you're trying to find logical thought where none exists. If you look at it as a slogan designed to evoke feelings, rather than a rational argument, your confusion will disappear.
November 18, 2009, 8:30 amT:
America / People of America (Nation) != USA Federal Government (State)
November 18, 2009, 8:40 amJohn F. Opie:
I am loyal.
Andy Stern isn't.
End of story.
November 18, 2009, 8:59 amDedicated_Dad:
Damn right I am loyal to America.
I owe neither loyalty, fealty, debt or service to the traitors who have abrogated and continue to urinate upon her Constitution and the principles who made her the greatest nation in the history of our planet.
Anyone who says resistance - even armed resistance - to such treasonous vermin is unpatriotic has things entirely backwards.
It's because I love her and am loyal to her that I will be willing to pledge my life, my fortune, and my sacred honor to her defense.
Sic Semper Tyrannis, si vis pacem, parabellum, and molon labe. 3 messages, 10 words, 100% reality.
God help us, and God Save Our Republic!!
November 18, 2009, 9:19 amspiro:
sethstorm,
But that is the point, redistribution and union loyalty as American values IS his argument, and IS the argument of the current government. And, if not accepting those concepts as my "duty" as an American makes me a un-american, so be it. My allegiance to the government is always on a thin thread, but my belief in the human right of personal freedom is always strong.
November 18, 2009, 10:23 amKR:
Pretty sure that's in the Constitution, right?
November 18, 2009, 11:30 amMethinks:
You know, I used to be a flag waving American. As an immigrant, I really appreciated this country and I've often had to defend my love of America to my family in Eastern Europe and the Middle East. This constant need to explain forced me to really think about what America is and what I'm loyal to. I concluded that I shared the vision of the founding fathers of a land of limited government which served chiefly to protect individual liberty. That's what makes America special. That's what defines America and it's that principle to which I'm loyal.
I realize the constitution has been systematically trashed over time. But now, I think we've reached that critical tipping point where the constitution is completely irrelevant. Thus, the only way to be loyal to America is to turn my back on the soft tyranny that has replaced the constitution. I'm happy to once again become an "enemy of the people".
November 18, 2009, 11:31 amSeerak:
True patriotism is to a principle, not the accident of where you are born. Loyalty Loyalty to America is loyalty to that principle which defined its founding: liberty, the principle of individual rights.
Should America finally renounce this principle, it will be just another empire, no longer worthy of any loyalty.
Those who withdraw their sanction of this monstrosity will now, as they did two centuries ago, be the true patriots. The supporters of empire, be they its active builders like Andy Stern, or their chauvinistic toadies, like Sethstorm, will be the traitors.
November 18, 2009, 11:42 amMJ:
Well, if that's Stern's definition of loyalty, count me as part of the disloyal opposition as well.
November 18, 2009, 12:12 pmepobirs:
Mr. Stern needs to be informed how those union job came into existence in the first place.
November 18, 2009, 12:22 pmsethstorm:
Seerak:
Note that I do not agree with Stern in how he considers the only solution to be a Unionized solution. If you wish to conflate my support for part of the message with the rest of the ideas and beliefs of Stern, it would be wrong to do so. If you wish to continue with that belief, go right ahead. Do we kill all business for its corruption?
Epobirs:
The McCoys and Hatfields have nothing on the feud that business and labor have(and will have) with each other. I believe you're looking for "how those jobs came into place that are now unionized".
My idea of loyalty to country is not merely to the changing offices of government. It is to the individuals that make up this country. For that, I am not ashamed to be a citizen, to be amongst citizens, legal immigrants, and law-abiding visitors. For those who wish to identify with this country but have deeper loyalties to elsewhere, they must make the choice as to which set of individuals they show their loyalty. I'm ashamed of those who confuse various despotic and/or stratified regimes (namely the BRIC countries) with places that have our liberties. While they may present a face of supposed economic liberty, it is not liberty. It is merely the sound of trains running perfectly on time, with perilous consequences for those who are not on time(and the concealment of such consequences from public view).
Whatever your national or cultural identity is, I'm sure you're proud of it. Just don't get the idea that liberty just means an easily performed transaction. It also means that you were not pressured into the transaction in the first place.
November 18, 2009, 4:05 pmMark:
So, he thinks Unions can help with the redistribution of wealth.
November 18, 2009, 8:30 pmWell, when the tax payer revolt happens (not if, when), he then can be tarred and feathered like all the rest of those who believe thus.
Jim Klein:
"entrepreneurial class" I like that. Who's that...anyone that can think?
He's got one thing right---this sure looks like failure, and smells worse.
November 19, 2009, 6:55 amD-man:
When today's youth are facing 90% tax rates in another 10-20 years because of other citizen's "needs," where will THEIR loyalties lie?
"Our country was formed by immigrants ... who fled countries that were doing what we're doing now." — Peter Schiff.
November 20, 2009, 1:15 am