Coyote Blog

17 Comments

1. ExWarmist:

   Unfortuanately the Police are becoming separated from the public as an "us and them" culture becomes pervasive. Recent law changes such as NDAA that have destroyed the bill of rights have added fuel to this fire.

   February 13, 2012, 1:03 pm

2. Bram:

   "Don't move!" "Hands up!" "Get out of the car!"

   uhh... which?

   The laughing at the end doesn't bother me - he is clearly come down off an adrenaline high. Why he got that worked up over maybe pulling over a drunk is a mystery to me. Was there some kind of wild chase before the video started?

   February 13, 2012, 1:06 pm

3. marco73:

   Incentive drives behavior. Every one of those guys wanted to get a piece of a slam dunk felony arrest. That's how you get promotions, more overtime, and more pay.

   February 13, 2012, 1:20 pm

4. Roy Lofquist:

   "Every one of those guys wanted to get a piece of a slam dunk felony arrest."

   No, they were facing a potentially deadly situation and were expeditiously defusing it. The guy refused a valid order from a police officer. They had no way of knowing whether he was armed or even competent.

   February 13, 2012, 4:00 pm

5. me:

   Why don't we give some folks who are selected for limited intelligence some training in aggression, assault weapons and complete indemnity and a mission to go out and coerce other folks to their will? This can only end well...

   February 13, 2012, 5:14 pm

6. Roy Lofquist:

   me,

   Why don't we read them their Miranda rights whilst they pull their weapon?

   February 13, 2012, 8:14 pm

7. me:

   What, do we have rights again in this country now? I thought that was so yesterday? ;)

   February 13, 2012, 10:40 pm

8. Mark:

   I am not a big fan of the police. In fact, I got pulled over to day by one that was a big jerk. But what exactly do you believe these officers should be held accountable for? We are not given very much detail. Obviously, something the driver did made the police officer approach with a drawn gun and call for significant backup so I doubt this was a routine traffic stop. The man refused to get out of his car and did not put his hands up to demonstrate that he posed no threat to them. When they put him on the ground, the "victim" resisted arrest as you can plainly see how he fights to prevent his arms from being restrained.

   Sorry, this is just more libertarian idiocy.

   February 14, 2012, 3:59 am

9. Ariel:

   The guy is a diabetic. He was having a medical emergency, with all the disorientation that comes with it. Diabetics having a medical emergency often face the chance of a beat down before the officer(s) realize they weren't in a potentially dangerous situation.

   February 14, 2012, 8:14 am

10. joshv:

    About all I can see that went wrong here was a little too much kicking - and even that seemed to be directed at getting the guys on the ground by knocking his hands and feet out from under him. There wasn't any gratuitous beating that I could see, just an attempt to control a non-compliant suspect.

    Seriously folks, you don't deal with the batshit crazy drunks these guys put up with every day. How the hell are the cops supposed to know that an unresponsive, non cooperative person is in diabetic shock? Ask him?

    February 14, 2012, 8:22 am

11. me:

    Woah. Really, people, if you ever had spent some time in a civilized country and seen a single policeperson politely approach, ask questions and then singlehandedly arrest and detain a large guy, you would not ask these questions.

    Five people, kicking a person that's on the ground and held by four of them?

    Then again, it's ok, nobody got hurt - if you're not counting the victim.

    And the gun pointing? I see a stopped car with a guy who's not moving and an out of control officer with a deadly weapon at the ready. To presume that he must have a great reason and that therefore the guy in the car is really at fault is a bit of a stretch.

    February 14, 2012, 9:45 am

12. me:

    All of this got me curious about finding some hard data.

    While there are good statistics about officers shot by firearms (49 in 2009), it's suspiciously hard to find numbers for civilians shot by officers. An official table by the BJS gives civilians killed during arrest as about 800 per year (4813/2003-2009). I think the data conclusively supports that it is more rational for civilians to be afraid of being harmed by the police than officers to be harmed by civilians.

    February 14, 2012, 10:44 am

13. Benjamin Cole:

    Not sure of context here. Was the arrestee a diabetic? Or had they just concluded a chase?

    While I share concerns about beat cops, I am even more worried by the creeping ability of government to learn everything about us, tax us, or even execute us (if someone in government says I am a terrorist).

    Beat cops are just the visible tip of the iceberg.

    February 14, 2012, 3:55 pm

14. Chris:

    qualified immunity vs SOX. One makes sure that you have no accountability for your own actions - the other makes you accountable for everyone's actions. I don't get the discrepancy.

    February 14, 2012, 7:23 pm

15. TXJim:

    lol SOX. For a minute there I was hopeful it was John Corzine they were pulling out of that car.

    February 14, 2012, 9:06 pm

16. Ariel:

    Me,

    Yep, police kill more than they are killed (they also die, all modes of death including natural, less than 1/10th the rate of American fisherman; I haven't seem injury rates, but the it's likely the same proportion). Of course, you have to differentiate between justified and unjustified (including mistaken). However, if a citizen used the same criteria - "I feared for my safety, they made a furtive movement, etc." - there would be a lot more justified killings. Oh, wait...

    February 16, 2012, 8:51 pm

17. me:

    @Ariel - yup, I did feel a bit guilty after posting the stats, they are a bit sensationalist. That said, I believe all this is a reflection of police culture in various places. I've lived in countries where any policeman behaving like the folks in this video would be ostracized by his peers and be out of the force on a dishonorable discharge in a heartbeat. In the US, for reasons I don't quite understand, the default attitude of law enforcement is "we can and will fuck you up", even if that means "I'll just make stuff up" as so recently displayed by a Seattle PD officer.

    February 17, 2012, 3:50 pm