Coyote Blog

30 Comments

1. Mark:

   The driver's license is suppose to be proof that you are here legally, either a citizen, a permanent resident, an H1B or a student Visa holder.

   That is all anyone should require. Whether you are Canadian or not is immaterial.

   Now I don't know since all the 9/11 laws passed, this particular dating of the drivers license based on the eligibility to live here, law may have been rescinded by illegal sympathizers.

   October 28, 2010, 3:14 pm

2. commieBob:

   In the winter half the population of rural Saskatchewan is in Arizona. Of course, they don't want to immigrate because they would lose their medical care. ;-) (At least that's the way it used to be when I lived there.)

   Why do the Saskatchewanians want to winter in Arizona? Even they aren't tough enough to want to spend the winter in Saskatchewan. My first car was a little British sports car. In the winter, I had to make sure it was in the correct gear to get out of the driveway because you couldn't change gears until the car had driven half a block. The tires would freeze square on the bottom. The car would thump along the street for a while until the tires warmed up a bit. Sigh; it takes me back ...

   October 28, 2010, 3:47 pm

3. Agammamon:

   You know how real Americans provide proof of that. When anyone asks they tell the questioner to fuck off, they don't have to provide proof of shit.

   October 28, 2010, 5:08 pm

4. Fred from Canuckistan:

   The smell of bacon lingering in the air always gives away.

   Back bacon.

   October 28, 2010, 5:24 pm

5. perlhaqr:

   Can't prove a negative. You could prove you're an American citizen, though. Or at lest have an American passport.

   October 28, 2010, 8:08 pm

6. astonerii:

   Oh, how cute, a private group wants to do some identity theft and they become your heroes, because they so completely totally destroy the idea that people can easily, simply prove that they legal residents of the United States of America, a sovereign nation with soveriegn borders. I sure as hell would go to all lengths required to give personal private and identity theft friendly information to any jerk who happens to ask me out on the street to prove I am a legal citizen of the United States of America.

   But if a cop needed the proof, I have access to a passport, a social security card, drivers license, my birth certificate (short form), my DD 214 and my original military ID card. But I am not even going to show some punk on the street with a camera crew so much as a drivers license.

   The truth is that shy of a few very special cases, every single person born in the United States of America can very easily prove they are in fact citizens. It is called a birth certificate, and in order to obtain one, to furnish to a government entity or a prospective employer is to know what county you were born in, the maiden name of your mother and your birth date and if you changed names you have the arduous task of remembering what your mother called you until you were 18 years old. Now, yes, there are the rare public buildings that burned down and took out your birth certificate situations, but my understanding is that these documents are required to be duplicated in some form (microfich?) and stored in secondary and frequently tertiary locations. So, unless the whole state burned to the ground, there should be a record somewhere of your birth.

   Nice try illegal alien enabler libtardarian, but no cigar on convincing anyone with a functioning BS detector that asking for identification from people is a joke because it is hard for a private party with no need of private information to obtain proof of citizenship from random people on the street. Your webpage is really starting to become quite the joke, I really miss the down to earth Coyote Blog that actually had reasonable arguments about things instead of some anarchist wetdream jihad for borderless globe.

   October 28, 2010, 9:46 pm

7. IgotBupkis:

   The problem here is that, while this notion is "cute", and amusing, it's a classic case of Asimov's Axiom, aka "Wronger Than Wrong":

   "When people thought the earth was flat, they were wrong. When people thought the earth was spherical, they were wrong. But if you think that thinking the earth is spherical is just as wrong as thinking the earth is flat, then your view is wronger than both of them put together."

   Yes, you may be able to argue the case that some random white person on the mean streets of Arizona could be an illegal immigrant, just as some one of a more "Latinesque" skin tone may well be, you venture into AA territory when you attempt to claim that one is just as likely as the other.

   October 28, 2010, 11:54 pm

8. Jon:

   Oh, the good old days when no one needed ID to do anything, not to vote, not to live here, not to drive.

   October 29, 2010, 5:13 am

9. IgotBupkis, President, United Anarchist Society:

   > Oh, the good old days when no one needed ID to do anything, not to vote, not to live here, not to drive.

   Part of that was
   a) less than 1/3rd the current population
   b) As a result of 'a', everyone knew everyone else
   c) No one had cars or assets that would get destroyed by a stupid error
   d) A measure of individual social responsibility that began to disappear around the time of the Wilson Admin, though you might also argue for Teddy's part in that.

   Grover Cleveland was the last PotUS I know of who clearly understood it:

   After a drought had ruined crops in several Texas counties, Congress appropriated $10,000 to purchase seed grain for farmers there. Cleveland vetoed the expenditure. In his veto message, he espoused his position on limited government:

   I can find no warrant for such an appropriation in the Constitution, and I do not believe that the power and duty of the general government ought to be extended to the relief of individual suffering which is in no manner properly related to the public service or benefit. A prevalent tendency to disregard the limited mission of this power and duty should, I think, be steadfastly resisted, to the end that the lesson should be constantly enforced that, though the people support the government, the government should not support the people.
   The friendliness and charity of our countrymen can always be relied upon to relieve their fellow-citizens in misfortune. This has been repeatedly and quite lately demonstrated. Federal aid in such cases encourages the expectation of paternal care on the part of the government and weakens the sturdiness of our national character, while it prevents the indulgence among our people of that kindly sentiment and conduct which strengthens the bonds of a common brotherhood.

   February 16, 1887

   October 29, 2010, 7:03 am

10. GaryP:

    Cute, but stupid.

    Equivalent to filming passing white Americans and opining that they might be "Christian terrorists" contemplating an attack on America and stating that this is equivalent to filming passing Muslims and wondering if they might be "Islamist terrorists" doing the same. The first is so implausible that it is ludicrous while the second, while unlikely, is a real possibility.

    Coyote, you make sense on many issues, but you are a total "________" on illegal immigration (fill in the blank with an uncomplimentary descriptor). Supporting illegal immigrants when American workers are suffering such high unemployment is "worse than a crime, it is stupid." It is equivalent to a parent loving a neighbor's child more than their own. It is unnatural (even if the neighbor's child is more talented, harder working, etc.) and it insures that their own child will become dysfunctional and unhappy. Every choice we make (even refusing to choose one over the other) has consequences. We cannot treat everyone on the planet equally, we don't have the resources. We have to make choices and choosing to support your fellow Americans at the expense of foreigners is equivalent to choosing to take care of your own mother rather than taking care of your friend's mother equally well. No one (and no country) has the resources to care for every person in the world equally well. Not choosing your compatriots (or family members) over foreigners (or strangers) guarantees the collapse of the country (or the family). We don't choose our fellow Americans any more than we choose our family, but our fate is wedded to the fate of other Americans. Maybe someday (don't hold your breath) we can be citizens of the world but today we are Americans and unless we focus on helping America (and other Americans), America (and all its citizens) will suffer.

    Every other society on Earth (other than the Europeans and Canadians) gets this basic truth. After 70 years of "one world" and "Kumbaya" nonsense most Westerners see themselves "above" acknowledging that the only way you can avoid having an identity separate from other nationalities (or cultures) is to surrender to them and become their inferiors. I wish it wasn't so but either we put America first or we will be the "serfs" of the Chinese, Mexicans, Russians, Muslims, etc. (whomever has the strength of will and desire to dominate us). The "tribe" is hardwired into the human brain. You can to some degree choose your tribe (although if you are obviously different, say by accent, appearance, or religion, you are at best tolerated by your chosen group, never fully accepted). Try living in Japan, Africa, or a Muslim country and see if you are really accepted. You will be tolerated, probably because you are assumed to be a "rich" westerner but they won't want you marrying their sister (especially the local elites) and you will be assumed to be "fair game" to be treated in ways that it would be immoral to treat their peers.

    Treating foreigners with respect, as long as they respect our country and its laws, is moral and smart. Allowing foreigners to flaunt our laws makes us look weak and encourages others to assume they can walk all over all our laws and our citizens. Either America is strong enough to protect our borders and enforce our laws or we deserve to be conquered and destroyed by stronger neighbors (and we will be). You may not be "primitive" enough to see this simple truth, but 99% of the rest of the world sees it very clearly. Call me "xenophobic" if you will but the only reason there was a "Greek" culture is because the Greeks killed the Persians and expelled them from Greek lands. No nation that cannot defend itself survives. I want America to survive because fate made me, and my loved ones, Americans. Seems simple minded but all really important truths are simple. The smart and cultured Jews went meekly to the gas chambers because they couldn't grasp that their neighbors would murder them for being "different". When times get hard, we always rely on our family and our tribe and defend them against the "other." This is sad, as the "other" is not very different from ourselves but they will kill us simply because we are their "other," so choose: survival for you and yours or destruction and death for you and yours. We live, not in the best of all possible worlds, just in the only possible world, the one that exists now.

    October 29, 2010, 7:12 am

11. mahtso:

    "Supporting illegal immigrants when American workers are suffering such high unemployment is 'worse than a crime, it is stupid.'"

    Unless you make your money using low cost labor, as this blogger does.

    October 29, 2010, 8:24 am

12. JoshK:

    We have to crack down on these Canadians.

    October 29, 2010, 8:44 am

13. MJ:

    Unless you make your money using low cost labor, as this blogger does.

    What do you consider "low-cost"?

    October 29, 2010, 9:55 am

14. MJ:

    The responses from several of the people in the video were quite telling. More than one threat of violence in response to being asked for proof of citizenship, and of course "Uh oh, I know what you're getting at" at the end of the clip.

    October 29, 2010, 10:01 am

15. DrTorch:

    When I first got to ASU, I had a Canada windbreaker I bought while visiting Toronto.

    Whew! It's frightening to think of where that would lead to nowadays.

    /s

    October 29, 2010, 11:56 am

16. caseyboy:

    IgotBupkis - you are right about Grover Cleveland. Probably one of the last presidents to read the Constitution. He vetoed 414 bills in his first term and 170 in the second. More than all previous presidents combined. He got it, limited Government.

    His comment about the American people being charitable was correct. The people actually provided 10 times the about of aid that Cleveland vetoed the aid bill. However, that was before the 17th Amendment, which started the transfer of money from the people who earned it to the Government. Let the Government do it, whatever "it" is. The people have less and less to give through charity. The best you can say about the Government filling that role is that they are inefficient. However, from my perspective it is more sinister. The Government creates dependencies and then uses tax revenue to build constituencies. Bring back Grover Cleveland, my favorite President.

    October 29, 2010, 1:52 pm

17. gadfly:

    Steve Hoffstetter has all the power in this video, He controls the camera, he asks the questions designed to humiliate his victims while attempting to represent ridicule as funny. Most importantly, he controls the tape editing. Framing questions into the "Do you still beat your wife?" trap is solely for the purpose of victimizing nice people who agreed to be questioned in the first place.

    Warren Meyer should be ashamed to display this sham on this blog.

    October 29, 2010, 4:23 pm

18. pino:

    Can You Prove You Are Not An Illegal Canadian Immigrant?

    The thing is, the police can't walk up to random people doing random things and ask them for proof of legal residence. Further, the law say that a driver's license is sufficient evidence that the person is legal. And further...they have 24 hours to provide the documentation.

    I know that you support more open borders, but I suspect that you support some form of "you must be here legally". Is it not reasonable to validate that people are legal or illegal?

    October 29, 2010, 7:24 pm

19. Doug:

    How about "yes, my head is still attached"?

    http://tinyurl.com/27t3fhs

    October 29, 2010, 8:30 pm

20. John O.:

    I just want to point out that any argument that requires ad hominem is one that most people will flat out ignore as soon as they them pick up. Using other fallacies of argument can provoke the same response.

    I personally find arguing with fallacies to be in very poor taste and I will view all uses of them as conceding the debate.

    -- John O.

    October 29, 2010, 10:01 pm

21. Mesa Econoguy:

    Never ask a Texan where they're from.

    C'mon Warren, you know that!!!!

    And never ask a New Yorker for change, or a Democrat for a legal argument, or a Republican for an idea, etc.

    October 29, 2010, 10:51 pm

22. Foxfier:

    Gah, I hate these things.

    It's just *blank* stroking-- film long enough, you'll be able to get enough three-second clips to "prove" whatever you want.

    Then we get to the whole "utterly missing the point" and what the law actually requires....

    October 29, 2010, 11:11 pm

23. skh.pcola:

    If Warren believes this dreck to be "pretty funny," he must guffaw uproariously at 2nd-grade "knock-knock" jokes. I doubt he'd have an equivalent reaction if a "reporter" filmed an asshat asking questions of Mexico City natives about the influx of violent foreigners to that metropolis. Pitiful.

    October 30, 2010, 10:56 am

24. Skeptic:

    Oddly enough, although I was a resident of Canada for a long time, I would have no trouble proving that I'm an American citizen.

    I've found that I'm often asked to prove my identity with government issued photo ID, generally for purposes I wholly approve of, such as verification that I am entitled to use the credit-card or cheque I have just presented.

    But, I've long been uncomfortable with handing over an ID document containing my current address.
    I managed to get my SSN off the driver's license card long ago, but the state still loves to index it by that number in their database, which seems to be accessible by all kinds of people.

    The "passport card" is just the ticket though. It is indisputably government issued photo ID, does not contain an address, and is not linked to my SSN in any database accessible to mere mortals.

    October 30, 2010, 9:37 pm

25. damaged justice:

    I was born in the united States and have lived here all my life. I have no "government ID".

    October 31, 2010, 6:07 am

26. Sameer:

    This is really fucking stupid. You could easily go up to brown people and ask them the same thing, and they'd give you the same answer.

    October 31, 2010, 7:04 am

27. Sameer:

    This is really fucking stupid. You could easily go up to brown people and ask them the same thing, and they'd give you the same answer.

    (first comment rejected, second comment, "duplicate"?)

    October 31, 2010, 7:05 am

28. Griz:

    Back in the 80's my next door neighbor got deported. He worked in construction in construction. INS checked the hispanics first, but after some heckling by the workers, they checked everybody. The only one deported was the blonde, blue eyed canadian who had taken a California vacation 15 years earlier and never left.

    October 31, 2010, 7:19 am

29. Paul:

    While not a big supporter of the useless SB1070 law; I see this video as equally useless and misinformed.
    Were the creator of this video to have read up on the useless 1070 law; he would have known that valid proof of ones US citizenship and/or legal residency status could have been easily proven with a show of a state-issued ID (which you need a birth cert to obtain).

    October 31, 2010, 11:46 am

30. markm:

    astonerii: Do you always have your passport and birth certificate on you? Carrying your birth certificate around routinely is so unusual that a cop could consider it suspicious behavior. (As in, you're expecting to be stopped and have this easily forged document ready just in case...)

    I doubt it's that difficult for an illegal immigrant to get a driver's license. IIRC, I only needed to show a birth certificate once, 40 years ago, and that was just because it was the only document I had to prove I was over 16. There's nothing out there to catch those that entered the country legally, obtained a driver's license, and overstayed their visa. Nor are DMV clerks going to catch identity theft.

    Tying driver's licenses to citizenship or immigration status is a bad idea in the first place. The ostensible reason for government-issued driver's licenses is road safety. If documentation unrelated to your qualifications to drive is required, the safety function suffers. If you're going to steal someone's identity to get the license, you might as well steal an identity that passed driver's ed and skip that class...

    Nor is skin color a reliable filter. We've got close to 3,000 miles of unguarded border with Canada, and most of them are white. I also knew a family of Cuban immigrants (legal, I presume) that were all red or blond haired and white skinned with freckles. Most likely their ancestors from a century or more back were Irish, but they were Cuban in culture and birth. I know there were also Irish-Mexicans and German-South Americans, so don't point at your white skin and blue eyes as proof that you didn't cross the Rio Grande illegally.

    November 7, 2010, 7:42 am